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	<title>Comments on: Hospitals are becoming part of the problem</title>
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	<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/</link>
	<description>It would not matter who got elected if cash bribes didn&#039;t change hands in the process.</description>
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		<title>By: Voter Reforms, boring but necessary &#171; Moneyed Politicians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Voter Reforms, boring but necessary &#171; Moneyed Politicians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Hospitals are becoming part of the problem  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hospitals are becoming part of the problem  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John, I agree with you and your analysis. There are 45 million uninsured and an equal number of underinsured that will disagree with Fogel as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I agree with you and your analysis. There are 45 million uninsured and an equal number of underinsured that will disagree with Fogel as well.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If health care is ever going to change, then one Nobel Prize winning economists should be avoided. Check this from the Wall Street Journal and my commentary. 

http://democurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2008/08/were-spending-more-on-health-care.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If health care is ever going to change, then one Nobel Prize winning economists should be avoided. Check this from the Wall Street Journal and my commentary. </p>
<p><a href="http://democurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2008/08/were-spending-more-on-health-care.html" rel="nofollow">http://democurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2008/08/were-spending-more-on-health-care.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 13:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the comment Derrick. Medical tourism is equivalent to outsourcing medical jobs to other countries. Many of us thought that at least our health care was sacred territory, but that is obviously not the case when it comes to insurance company and employer profits.

CEOs -- like John Torinus of Serigraph in West Bend -- are excited about the prospects of sending employees for cheap health care in other countries, but the peripheral costs could offset those savings. 

Torinus has 700 employees, is a board member of WMC, and business journalist at the Milwaukee Journal. He has very legitimate concerns about health care costs, but my hope is that supporters of medical tourism first expose themselves to the practice before they send employees into the pit.

Since suing a doctor or hospital for medical malpractice may be impossible in other countries, that helps reduce their costs. But the added costs of corrective measures in the U.S. must be considered. Or not, if the patient dies. And the costs of diseases picked up by a weakened patient on the return flight could complicate the legal case, if not the patient&#039;s safety.

But hospitals must consider their contribution in this issue. Do they really want this fallout? I think not, and believe they should correct the above items and embrace a single-payer healthcare system that will ensure their place at the top.

David Newby,  President of Wisconsin State AFL-CIO, wrote an excellent piece on Medical tourism and it is well worth the read. See it HERE. www.ThrowTheRascalsOut.org/Newby-Torinus.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment Derrick. Medical tourism is equivalent to outsourcing medical jobs to other countries. Many of us thought that at least our health care was sacred territory, but that is obviously not the case when it comes to insurance company and employer profits.</p>
<p>CEOs &#8212; like John Torinus of Serigraph in West Bend &#8212; are excited about the prospects of sending employees for cheap health care in other countries, but the peripheral costs could offset those savings. </p>
<p>Torinus has 700 employees, is a board member of WMC, and business journalist at the Milwaukee Journal. He has very legitimate concerns about health care costs, but my hope is that supporters of medical tourism first expose themselves to the practice before they send employees into the pit.</p>
<p>Since suing a doctor or hospital for medical malpractice may be impossible in other countries, that helps reduce their costs. But the added costs of corrective measures in the U.S. must be considered. Or not, if the patient dies. And the costs of diseases picked up by a weakened patient on the return flight could complicate the legal case, if not the patient&#8217;s safety.</p>
<p>But hospitals must consider their contribution in this issue. Do they really want this fallout? I think not, and believe they should correct the above items and embrace a single-payer healthcare system that will ensure their place at the top.</p>
<p>David Newby,  President of Wisconsin State AFL-CIO, wrote an excellent piece on Medical tourism and it is well worth the read. See it HERE. <a href="http://www.ThrowTheRascalsOut.org/Newby-Torinus.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.ThrowTheRascalsOut.org/Newby-Torinus.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Derrick</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Derrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 11:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What&#039;s wrong with sending patients to other countries for health care? If it reduces costs, isn&#039;t that what we want?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s wrong with sending patients to other countries for health care? If it reduces costs, isn&#8217;t that what we want?</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, I know John. I saw one blogger write that conservatives are all against welfare, unless it comes as an inheritance they don&#039;t have to work for. Sounds about right to me. 

But the &quot;speech&quot; issue is well addressed in the public funding systems of both Arizona and Maine. Because the public grants are optional, and a candidate can opt to continue taking special interest money if they want, the clean money systems already pass constitutional muster. A lengthy amendment process is not necessary. We can have a clean money system tomorrow if the politicians wanted it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I know John. I saw one blogger write that conservatives are all against welfare, unless it comes as an inheritance they don&#8217;t have to work for. Sounds about right to me. </p>
<p>But the &#8220;speech&#8221; issue is well addressed in the public funding systems of both Arizona and Maine. Because the public grants are optional, and a candidate can opt to continue taking special interest money if they want, the clean money systems already pass constitutional muster. A lengthy amendment process is not necessary. We can have a clean money system tomorrow if the politicians wanted it.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The clearest way to the goal of getting money out of politics, and it&#039;s corrupting influence, is to challenge the personhood of corporations. The fastest path is a lawsuit challenging the age old decision that mistakenly resulted in this ridiculous conclusion. I will leave it up to the legal minds to determine a harmed party.

The other way would be to clearly present to the public the absurdity of the idea, and push for a clarifying Amendment. Corporate influence would stop any such movement though.

Politicians should also write into any single payer legislation that health care is a &quot;right&quot; of all citizens. People identify rights. &quot;Entitlement&quot; is a conservative word to frame the issue as if it were an undeserved waste of taxpayer money to those who don&#039;t want to work for their care. Another words, welfare.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The clearest way to the goal of getting money out of politics, and it&#8217;s corrupting influence, is to challenge the personhood of corporations. The fastest path is a lawsuit challenging the age old decision that mistakenly resulted in this ridiculous conclusion. I will leave it up to the legal minds to determine a harmed party.</p>
<p>The other way would be to clearly present to the public the absurdity of the idea, and push for a clarifying Amendment. Corporate influence would stop any such movement though.</p>
<p>Politicians should also write into any single payer legislation that health care is a &#8220;right&#8221; of all citizens. People identify rights. &#8220;Entitlement&#8221; is a conservative word to frame the issue as if it were an undeserved waste of taxpayer money to those who don&#8217;t want to work for their care. Another words, welfare.</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m for a &quot;regulated free market.&quot; I&#039;m not happy with the extreme &quot;strong eat the weak&quot; philosophy. It works okay when big fish eat the small fish and we have a few whales in the end, but humans should be a bit more compassionate. A quick look at what deregulation has gotten us to date should teach us that extremes don&#039;t work well.  

The paperwork you note is the massive billing administration forced on hospitals by the insurance bureaucracy. A Medicare-for-all system would eliminate that, and with only one provider the reimbursements would have to be reasonable, especially if the politicians are also under it.

Medical tourism will lose support as difficulties with follow-up care and medical errors come to light. Why would doctors who work for a US hospital want to involve themselves in error corrections for foreign hospitals?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m for a &#8220;regulated free market.&#8221; I&#8217;m not happy with the extreme &#8220;strong eat the weak&#8221; philosophy. It works okay when big fish eat the small fish and we have a few whales in the end, but humans should be a bit more compassionate. A quick look at what deregulation has gotten us to date should teach us that extremes don&#8217;t work well.  </p>
<p>The paperwork you note is the massive billing administration forced on hospitals by the insurance bureaucracy. A Medicare-for-all system would eliminate that, and with only one provider the reimbursements would have to be reasonable, especially if the politicians are also under it.</p>
<p>Medical tourism will lose support as difficulties with follow-up care and medical errors come to light. Why would doctors who work for a US hospital want to involve themselves in error corrections for foreign hospitals?</p>
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		<title>By: ezag</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ezag]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More regulation?  When I walk into a hospital or doctors office, I see an army of people not doing health care.  They are managing forms and organizing to collect payments.  Getting paid is harder each year.  Reimbursements continue to decline.

How long before those on government care can&#039;t find a doctor?

Medical tourism is a part of the solution as well as less regulation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More regulation?  When I walk into a hospital or doctors office, I see an army of people not doing health care.  They are managing forms and organizing to collect payments.  Getting paid is harder each year.  Reimbursements continue to decline.</p>
<p>How long before those on government care can&#8217;t find a doctor?</p>
<p>Medical tourism is a part of the solution as well as less regulation.</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the post, Robert. Working on straight salary where that does not fluctuate with volumes of admissions or MRIs, or there is not a &quot;productivity incentive&quot; paid, would avoid some conflicts of interest. A conflict could arise if a doctor sees faulty facilities or care and does not report it because he&#039;ll look bad to his employer, or refers patients to an internal doc instead of one down the street who is better suited for the patient or whose hospital is better equipped. I&#039;ve seen the &quot;professional ethics&quot; side of it fail, both with and without money being involved, so I would not count on that alleviating the conflicts. 

You are right. IT IS a non-functional democratic system. It is corrupt politicians that are being paid off to turn their heads and not fix the problem because their campaign contributors like the status quo. Thus the &quot;implementation&quot; is to first get the money out of the political system (through public funding of campaigns) and then sit back and watch! Our health care system will be fixed overnight, useless government spending will be reduced or redirected to public services, regulations will be imposed on the financial and mortgage industry, and, and, need I say more?

And let me add that when a hospital CEO is paying your salary, and giving your performance reviews, it is pretty hard to be adamant about hospital deficiencies or pull your patients and admit them down the street if you aren’t happy. The temptation is to be compliant, or find another job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post, Robert. Working on straight salary where that does not fluctuate with volumes of admissions or MRIs, or there is not a &#8220;productivity incentive&#8221; paid, would avoid some conflicts of interest. A conflict could arise if a doctor sees faulty facilities or care and does not report it because he&#8217;ll look bad to his employer, or refers patients to an internal doc instead of one down the street who is better suited for the patient or whose hospital is better equipped. I&#8217;ve seen the &#8220;professional ethics&#8221; side of it fail, both with and without money being involved, so I would not count on that alleviating the conflicts. </p>
<p>You are right. IT IS a non-functional democratic system. It is corrupt politicians that are being paid off to turn their heads and not fix the problem because their campaign contributors like the status quo. Thus the &#8220;implementation&#8221; is to first get the money out of the political system (through public funding of campaigns) and then sit back and watch! Our health care system will be fixed overnight, useless government spending will be reduced or redirected to public services, regulations will be imposed on the financial and mortgage industry, and, and, need I say more?</p>
<p>And let me add that when a hospital CEO is paying your salary, and giving your performance reviews, it is pretty hard to be adamant about hospital deficiencies or pull your patients and admit them down the street if you aren’t happy. The temptation is to be compliant, or find another job.</p>
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		<title>By: robertdfeinman</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/17/hospitals-are-becoming-part-of-the-problem/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[robertdfeinman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=595#comment-259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like your points, but I don&#039;t think you have thought through #3 enough.

If hospitals were non-profit then working for them on a salary would not be a conflict of interest.

Even if they remain for-profit, a strong code of professional ethics could make sure that the business side didn&#039;t influence treatment decisions. 

Like much of what is wrong these days, it is that the oversight agencies and the regulations that were established in response to failures in the past have been subverted. So we see tainted meat, lead coated toys and harmful drugs being sold.

All of this gets back to the fundamental problem, a non-functional democratic system. Electoral processes are biased against average people getting elected by the need for big money. As a results the interests of the majority are ignored: &quot;he who pays the piper gets to pick the tune&quot;.

If you want to contribute something original to the discussion then focus on how we get from here to there. We understand the goals, it&#039;s the implementation that is the problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your points, but I don&#8217;t think you have thought through #3 enough.</p>
<p>If hospitals were non-profit then working for them on a salary would not be a conflict of interest.</p>
<p>Even if they remain for-profit, a strong code of professional ethics could make sure that the business side didn&#8217;t influence treatment decisions. </p>
<p>Like much of what is wrong these days, it is that the oversight agencies and the regulations that were established in response to failures in the past have been subverted. So we see tainted meat, lead coated toys and harmful drugs being sold.</p>
<p>All of this gets back to the fundamental problem, a non-functional democratic system. Electoral processes are biased against average people getting elected by the need for big money. As a results the interests of the majority are ignored: &#8220;he who pays the piper gets to pick the tune&#8221;.</p>
<p>If you want to contribute something original to the discussion then focus on how we get from here to there. We understand the goals, it&#8217;s the implementation that is the problem.</p>
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