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	<title>Comments on: What if public funding of campaigns were free to taxpayers?</title>
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	<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/</link>
	<description>It would not matter who got elected if cash bribes didn&#039;t change hands in the process.</description>
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		<title>By: Voter Reforms, boring but necessary &#171; Moneyed Politicians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Voter Reforms, boring but necessary &#171; Moneyed Politicians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  What if public funding of campaigns were free to&#160;taxpayers? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  What if public funding of campaigns were free to&nbsp;taxpayers? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Voter ID is part of the solution &#171; Moneyed Politicians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Voter ID is part of the solution &#171; Moneyed Politicians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 23:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] of?&#8221;  I must say: The same thing Republicans are afraid of with a campaign system that is funded by the taxpayers instead of the special interests that pad their [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of?&#8221;  I must say: The same thing Republicans are afraid of with a campaign system that is funded by the taxpayers instead of the special interests that pad their [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 14:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me expand on my comment that &lt;b&gt;&quot;legislators will change their priorities and spend our money in the best interest of the public.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;i&gt;That is exactly what most politicians don&#039;t want to do! &lt;/i&gt;They get their campaign money by spending taxpayer money on special interest giveaways, like the excessive roads I used as an example. To eliminate that benefit could cost them the election against a credible candidate.

That&#039;s also why the public must demand it. We want politicians working for us, not them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me expand on my comment that <b>&#8220;legislators will change their priorities and spend our money in the best interest of the public.&#8221;</b></p>
<p><i>That is exactly what most politicians don&#8217;t want to do! </i>They get their campaign money by spending taxpayer money on special interest giveaways, like the excessive roads I used as an example. To eliminate that benefit could cost them the election against a credible candidate.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s also why the public must demand it. We want politicians working for us, not them.</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-234</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 00:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the follow-up, Jo. 

No, there is no such thing as a free lunch, but the question comes down to which &quot;tax&quot; is cheaper for the taxpayers. I’d argue that $5 is better than $1300, or any other number you might want to use instead. But Arizona is even better.

Yes, you could argue that the extra $50 will cause some speeders to spend nights in jail rather than paying the fine, and I’d counter that it’d also reduce traffic and drunk driving deaths. But I think we both are reaching a bit. 

And with the taxpayer savings we could indeed increase reimbursement rates for Medicaid patients. And a whole lot more. I think politicians must decide whether they are on the side of the public or the special interests, and if the latter hope that the public is not smart enough to know the difference. But I&#039;d also look at where it has gotten the current crop.

Let me also advise other readers that Jo Egelhoff is a candidate in the 57th Assembly district, and if she wins the seat may indeed (and I would hope) have to vote on this issue. So I am very pleased to see her interest in the subject and wish her luck on her campaign. Jo operates an excellent news web site at http://www.FoxPoliticsNews.net.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the follow-up, Jo. </p>
<p>No, there is no such thing as a free lunch, but the question comes down to which &#8220;tax&#8221; is cheaper for the taxpayers. I’d argue that $5 is better than $1300, or any other number you might want to use instead. But Arizona is even better.</p>
<p>Yes, you could argue that the extra $50 will cause some speeders to spend nights in jail rather than paying the fine, and I’d counter that it’d also reduce traffic and drunk driving deaths. But I think we both are reaching a bit. </p>
<p>And with the taxpayer savings we could indeed increase reimbursement rates for Medicaid patients. And a whole lot more. I think politicians must decide whether they are on the side of the public or the special interests, and if the latter hope that the public is not smart enough to know the difference. But I&#8217;d also look at where it has gotten the current crop.</p>
<p>Let me also advise other readers that Jo Egelhoff is a candidate in the 57th Assembly district, and if she wins the seat may indeed (and I would hope) have to vote on this issue. So I am very pleased to see her interest in the subject and wish her luck on her campaign. Jo operates an excellent news web site at <a href="http://www.FoxPoliticsNews.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.FoxPoliticsNews.net</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Egelhoff</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jo Egelhoff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 00:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hear you Jack; would argue though, as Curt has done above, that there just is no such thing as a free lunch. For example, the 60% of funding in Arizona that you suggest comes from surcharges on criminal fines… it’s a tax Jack. And you can’t call those who are paying the surcharge “willing taxpayers.” Court charges in our state are multiple – and not small. So, you will add even more to the fines, so even more people can occupy a jail cell because they’re already unable to pay their fines -? The point is again, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If a society is using criminal fine surcharges (or whatever…) to finance campaigns, it’s a conscious choice – a choice that says public financing of campaigns is more important than say, higher reimbursement rates for Medicaid providers. Attention-getting or not, you can’t call it free Jack. You just can’t call it free.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear you Jack; would argue though, as Curt has done above, that there just is no such thing as a free lunch. For example, the 60% of funding in Arizona that you suggest comes from surcharges on criminal fines… it’s a tax Jack. And you can’t call those who are paying the surcharge “willing taxpayers.” Court charges in our state are multiple – and not small. So, you will add even more to the fines, so even more people can occupy a jail cell because they’re already unable to pay their fines -? The point is again, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If a society is using criminal fine surcharges (or whatever…) to finance campaigns, it’s a conscious choice – a choice that says public financing of campaigns is more important than say, higher reimbursement rates for Medicaid providers. Attention-getting or not, you can’t call it free Jack. You just can’t call it free.</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:31:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d add that it&#039;s absolutely amazing to me that the very people involved in spending $1300 per taxpayer per year on unnecessary state spending -- our esteemed politicians -- are quibbling about a $5 investment to fund a clean electoral system. That confirms that this isn&#039;t about taxpayer money, it&#039;s about the advantages they enjoy with a totally unfair electoral system.

Well, the game is over. The Republicans are on the way out and we&#039;ll soon learn if the Dems are made of any better stuff. If they want to be known as the party that fixed the system, they have that chance. It&#039;s interesting to note that the R&#039;s chose to turn the other way when, if they had moved on the chance, could be leading this race. Wow.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d add that it&#8217;s absolutely amazing to me that the very people involved in spending $1300 per taxpayer per year on unnecessary state spending &#8212; our esteemed politicians &#8212; are quibbling about a $5 investment to fund a clean electoral system. That confirms that this isn&#8217;t about taxpayer money, it&#8217;s about the advantages they enjoy with a totally unfair electoral system.</p>
<p>Well, the game is over. The Republicans are on the way out and we&#8217;ll soon learn if the Dems are made of any better stuff. If they want to be known as the party that fixed the system, they have that chance. It&#8217;s interesting to note that the R&#8217;s chose to turn the other way when, if they had moved on the chance, could be leading this race. Wow.</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 21:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Clyde, and thanks for mentioning the &quot;two major parties,&quot; because corruption IS a bipartisan problem. It just so happens that the R&#039;s are more to blame today because we are coming off of a Republican mess. But in 2010 we could as easily be coming off of a Democrat mess if the D&#039;s also fail to fix the problem.

It&#039;s interesting that neither party has yet to see that -- if they cleaned up the political system -- they would (a) reduce or eliminate wasteful government spending and unnecessary taxes, (b) solve many of the business and economic problems we are facing today, and (c) &lt;b&gt;ensure their electability and control of government for decades to come!&lt;/b&gt;

They seem to have convinced themselves that the see-saw from one party to the next is the way it has to be, rather than putting themselves above it all and guaranteeing the loyalty of the voters and taxpayers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Clyde, and thanks for mentioning the &#8220;two major parties,&#8221; because corruption IS a bipartisan problem. It just so happens that the R&#8217;s are more to blame today because we are coming off of a Republican mess. But in 2010 we could as easily be coming off of a Democrat mess if the D&#8217;s also fail to fix the problem.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting that neither party has yet to see that &#8212; if they cleaned up the political system &#8212; they would (a) reduce or eliminate wasteful government spending and unnecessary taxes, (b) solve many of the business and economic problems we are facing today, and (c) <b>ensure their electability and control of government for decades to come!</b></p>
<p>They seem to have convinced themselves that the see-saw from one party to the next is the way it has to be, rather than putting themselves above it all and guaranteeing the loyalty of the voters and taxpayers.</p>
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		<title>By: clydewinter</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[clydewinter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice clear, succinct article, again, Jack. 

Your attention grabbing headline, and the first sentence of the article clearly answer a rhetorical question.  There are people (especially lobbyists) who will be against ending legalized bribery distorting and hijacking our government, no matter what. 

But no one (and certainly not you) believes that campaigns for elected office can be conducted for free.  Thank you for persistently and patiently pointing out that the big &quot;donors&quot; to the two major parties do not &quot;contribute&quot; without expectation that their investment will produce handsome returns for their bottom line.  And for reminding us at every turn that those pay-back expectations are paid for by us, the citizens, and by the resources for which our government is responsible. 

You&#039;re right, Jack.  There is no free lunch.  It&#039;s naive to think that we taxpayers don&#039;t pay the bill to the waiter for the current corrupt system.  And you, at least, are not naive.  

CHOICE for A CHANGE 
http://clydewinter.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/choice-for-a-change/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice clear, succinct article, again, Jack. </p>
<p>Your attention grabbing headline, and the first sentence of the article clearly answer a rhetorical question.  There are people (especially lobbyists) who will be against ending legalized bribery distorting and hijacking our government, no matter what. </p>
<p>But no one (and certainly not you) believes that campaigns for elected office can be conducted for free.  Thank you for persistently and patiently pointing out that the big &#8220;donors&#8221; to the two major parties do not &#8220;contribute&#8221; without expectation that their investment will produce handsome returns for their bottom line.  And for reminding us at every turn that those pay-back expectations are paid for by us, the citizens, and by the resources for which our government is responsible. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, Jack.  There is no free lunch.  It&#8217;s naive to think that we taxpayers don&#8217;t pay the bill to the waiter for the current corrupt system.  And you, at least, are not naive.  </p>
<p>CHOICE for A CHANGE<br />
<a href="http://clydewinter.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/choice-for-a-change/" rel="nofollow">http://clydewinter.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/choice-for-a-change/</a></p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 17:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Curt, neither is the current system FREE. The public pays a hefty price when politicians take money from the special interests that want government favors in return.

Okay, so have it 100% come from criminal fines. But if you ask the public whether they&#039;d rather pay $5 or have the special interests fund the campaigns, 80% will support the $5. And incidentally, if you really want to talk about which is more imposing on the idealists, it&#039;s the current system that costs the public far more than $5. That money, whether $1300 or a small fraction, is also coming from the public.

And if people want to support the politician they think advances their position best, so be it. Do it in the voting booth, not by contributing $1000 to buy dirty ads on TV. 

And, again, the first amendment doesn&#039;t play into it if the politician opts to take public funds in lieu of private cash.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curt, neither is the current system FREE. The public pays a hefty price when politicians take money from the special interests that want government favors in return.</p>
<p>Okay, so have it 100% come from criminal fines. But if you ask the public whether they&#8217;d rather pay $5 or have the special interests fund the campaigns, 80% will support the $5. And incidentally, if you really want to talk about which is more imposing on the idealists, it&#8217;s the current system that costs the public far more than $5. That money, whether $1300 or a small fraction, is also coming from the public.</p>
<p>And if people want to support the politician they think advances their position best, so be it. Do it in the voting booth, not by contributing $1000 to buy dirty ads on TV. </p>
<p>And, again, the first amendment doesn&#8217;t play into it if the politician opts to take public funds in lieu of private cash.</p>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That attitude is the troubling part of public financing.  And the reason I&#039;ll never be able to get behind it.  It isn&#039;t FREE.  And those are TAXES.    If you click a checkoff it comes out of the general tax pool, which means you moved tax dollars to fund it.  As for the &quot;Willing&quot; speeders, that is simply another way of taxing an individual, and the money you take off the top of the ticket, is simply redirecting money that would otherwise have been used to fund police, and shifting that burden to the property tax.  

Argue the merits of taking big money out if you will, but this &quot;Free&quot; #$*($*#(* is just plain insulting.   While we can all see the problems that come with campaing funding, there really isn&#039;t any way to take money out of politics.  People will always support the politian they think advances their position best.  Government workers will always vote big governement.  Tax payers will likely lean more towards lean government.

I really don&#039;t see how anyone can ever take money out of politics.  I love the idea in theory.  Line up your platforms, give us the details, then let us vote.  But that &quot;pesky&quot; first amendment kind of gets in the way doesn&#039;t it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That attitude is the troubling part of public financing.  And the reason I&#8217;ll never be able to get behind it.  It isn&#8217;t FREE.  And those are TAXES.    If you click a checkoff it comes out of the general tax pool, which means you moved tax dollars to fund it.  As for the &#8220;Willing&#8221; speeders, that is simply another way of taxing an individual, and the money you take off the top of the ticket, is simply redirecting money that would otherwise have been used to fund police, and shifting that burden to the property tax.  </p>
<p>Argue the merits of taking big money out if you will, but this &#8220;Free&#8221; #$*($*#(* is just plain insulting.   While we can all see the problems that come with campaing funding, there really isn&#8217;t any way to take money out of politics.  People will always support the politian they think advances their position best.  Government workers will always vote big governement.  Tax payers will likely lean more towards lean government.</p>
<p>I really don&#8217;t see how anyone can ever take money out of politics.  I love the idea in theory.  Line up your platforms, give us the details, then let us vote.  But that &#8220;pesky&#8221; first amendment kind of gets in the way doesn&#8217;t it.</p>
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		<title>By: MoneyedPoliticians</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MoneyedPoliticians]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the comments, Jo and Curt. The funding does not have to come out of the budget. In Arizona&#039;s case it comes from a combination (60% from surcharges on criminal fines, 30% from tax-deductible check-offs on tax forms, 10% from several small sources like individual contributions at the time signatures are gathered.)

But ZERO comes from taxes on corporations and ZERO comes from unwilling taxpayers. You could argue that those who violate the law and pay a surcharge on their fine are taxpayers too, but we could then argue that they are also &quot;willing.&quot;

The point is that the money is NOT coming from special interests looking to receive taxpayer-funded assets in return. 

Will it actually eliminate the $1300? Who knows? Maybe some of it and maybe not all of it. But most certainly the legislators will change their priorities and spend our money in the best interest of the public. Perhaps fewer stupid highway interchanges will be rebuilt, fewer roads to nowhere, fewer taxpayer dollars spent building roads in developments for the realtors, fewer subsidies and etc.

Jack]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments, Jo and Curt. The funding does not have to come out of the budget. In Arizona&#8217;s case it comes from a combination (60% from surcharges on criminal fines, 30% from tax-deductible check-offs on tax forms, 10% from several small sources like individual contributions at the time signatures are gathered.)</p>
<p>But ZERO comes from taxes on corporations and ZERO comes from unwilling taxpayers. You could argue that those who violate the law and pay a surcharge on their fine are taxpayers too, but we could then argue that they are also &#8220;willing.&#8221;</p>
<p>The point is that the money is NOT coming from special interests looking to receive taxpayer-funded assets in return. </p>
<p>Will it actually eliminate the $1300? Who knows? Maybe some of it and maybe not all of it. But most certainly the legislators will change their priorities and spend our money in the best interest of the public. Perhaps fewer stupid highway interchanges will be rebuilt, fewer roads to nowhere, fewer taxpayer dollars spent building roads in developments for the realtors, fewer subsidies and etc.</p>
<p>Jack</p>
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		<title>By: Curt</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Curt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll have to agree with Jo on that.  Just because you don&#039;t implicitly call it a tax, it still is.  Fees/Fines/Taxes...are all just different words for the same thing.  I personally am torn on the funding issue, but to call it free for taxpayers is beyond silly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll have to agree with Jo on that.  Just because you don&#8217;t implicitly call it a tax, it still is.  Fees/Fines/Taxes&#8230;are all just different words for the same thing.  I personally am torn on the funding issue, but to call it free for taxpayers is beyond silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Egelhoff</title>
		<link>http://moneyedpoliticians.net/2008/08/07/what-if-public-funding-of-campaigns-were-free-to-taxpayers/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jo Egelhoff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 10:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://moneyedpoliticians.wordpress.com/?p=422#comment-224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jack, just how can public funding of campaigns be free to taxpayers? That&#039;s ridiculous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, just how can public funding of campaigns be free to taxpayers? That&#8217;s ridiculous.</p>
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